Posted by Dan Jensen
Bob Costas recently interviewed Willie Mays and Hank Aaron and commented that if baseball had a Mount Rushmore they would be on it. That got me to thinking. If Clear Creek had a Mount Rushmore, who do you think should be on it?
George Carlisle and Bennie Lenox for sure. I guess baseball player Jay Buhner, who had a good major league career, should be on it although my cousin Terrry Mathis was a mighty fine shortstop for our Wildcats. Perhaps the fourth would be...
Well, I'm not sure. A couple of football players are running through my mind and there are plenty of other good candidates for our Mount Rushmore. Y'all help me out.
After sending this thread to Ed Davis, I phoned Lynn Davis regarding it. He was in the Atlanta airport and I hope he took some remedial typing on his trip so that he can post in here.
Lynn pointed out that Jay Buhner was good in high school but not super good. So, maybe I should make room for someone else on the Mount since the criteria involves accomplishments at Clear Creek.
The two football players I had in mind were Bobo Frederick and Charles Patrick "Big Train" Milligan. They were just one year apart and great running backs. William Frost from that era was a speedy halfback. Johnny Valentino was also a very good football player.
There are plenty of others. Give me some names.
But, I'll tell you something right now. Although we have sustained long term volleyball excellence, they are ineligible for the Mount.
And, don't even whisper soccer. Not none, as Coach Carlisle would say.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 18, 2008 at 05:25 PM
This is a tough one since the honor would be so great that the list would be pretty slim.
I agree on the two you already mentioned - Bennie and Coach Carlisle. Some possibilities to consider from my perspecive, not knowing a whole lot about great athletes since I left the Creek in 1959, would be Boonie Wilkening (my favorite all-time Wildcat roundball player) and Henry Bauerschlag (great long-time assistant coach who also made it big as the head coach).
People may say they would not vote for these, but if this country can nominate Dukakis for President of the good ol' USA, then I can nominate Boonie and Coach Bauerschlag. Ain't America great?
By the way, I want to clear up the fact that I am obvviously not related to Lynn Davis becsuse it is evident that I do have some typing skills. In fact, one year at CCHS I won an award as the best typist in Coach Carlisle's typing classes.
Now, ladies and gentlemen, it is your turn to cast your votes. No need to register, just write what you think and click on the post button. What better things have you to do today anyway???
Posted by: Ed Davis | October 19, 2008 at 08:50 AM
Well, here's another thread down the drain. I suspect we could count the ones who still support this site on one hand.
I'm about ready to throw in the towel and ride off into the sunset with most of the old warhorses. This should have been a smash success. Instead it's just getting smashed.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 21, 2008 at 10:35 AM
Keep the Faith Dan. The Mt Rushmore Challenge is pretty daunting given the demise of the multisport letterman as teh schools grew larger and specialization became the norm. By the way, I wonder who Creek's last 3 sport letterman was. Where is Lynn Davis when we need him?
As for the Mountain, the first name that came to my mind was Coach Kreuger. I do believe that had his entire ccisd career been spent at Creek, he would be a no brainer. Alas, however, there was that Clear lake thing.
The other name I thought of was Scooter. While there was no football, his junior and senior years in basketball and football were pretty darn good.
As for Johnny Valentino, no one during my era may have done as much with the physical abilities he had. Outstanding football player, both ways, more than just a good basketball player and if my old man's memory has not completely failed me, Johnny worked himself into a productive Track and Field athlete.
That's my two cents worth. maybe we can get mathis off his can to contribute on this topic.
Paul
Posted by: paul hackett | October 23, 2008 at 04:58 PM
Lynn Davis swears that Scooter Lenox belongs on the Mount but I am not nearly as sure as he.
Lynn claims that Scooter was all state in basketball two years but I believe it to be only one. What do some other memories say?
Regardless, Scooter was outstanding in both basketball and as a baseball pitcher and deserves consideration for our Mount Rushmore.
I have no idea who our last three sport letterman was but that is a plumb loverly trivia question.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 23, 2008 at 05:11 PM
Not sure on the last 3 sport letterman but immediately before me in '65 I can bet on Joe mckinney and Johnny Valentino and cotton mckee.
Immediately following my class, I would bet that Robby Copeland was a 3 sport guy. After that I'll defer to the next generation
Posted by: paul hackett | October 23, 2008 at 06:43 PM
Paul, were you a place kicker in high school or was that just at Southwest Texas? If so, you would be one of those three sport lettermen but Copeland may have been the last. I am not at all sure about anyone else.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 23, 2008 at 07:14 PM
I only kicked my junior year and my senior year, larry kelly and I split the punting duties.
I punted for 5-6 games for one year at swt. i had to give it up as the center struggled with the snap and I was forced to run on 4 or 5 occsions. I was not too thrilled about that but Coach mac really was unhappy so I went back to the gym.
As for my high school kicking career, I cannot begin to tell you how much Coach gips despised the whole idea. i really think the only reason he ever did it was he knew creek was going to be really good with Joe's senior class with Mike lloyd and cotton..joe mckinney and Joe adams..Frank goodman...if Mike had not broken his leg against laporte I truly believe we would have gone undefeated.
If I rememeber correctly Joe Mckinney would have been the kicker but just I did not have Joe's prowess to play running back and linebacker, my kicking abilities exceeded his. I remember how much of a novelty I was..but Coach Gips narely ever spoke to me and he tolerated me at best.
as for the 3 sport guys we got to get davis and mathis to put on their thinking caps
Posted by: paul hackett | October 23, 2008 at 08:28 PM
Lynn Davis advises me that the last three sport letterman may have been Slade Lewis in the mid-eighties. He was a wide receiver in football, begged Buddy Carlisle to play basketball and wound up as a starter and was a hurdler in track.
Lynn continues to insist that Scooter Lenox deserves a spot on our Mount Rushmore.
But, can we trust the opinion of someone who never learned how to type?
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 26, 2008 at 06:49 PM
How about my cousin Kenneth Dismukes for that Mt. Rushmore. I never saw him play, but I think he deserves a vote. What I hear, he was one of the best in several sports.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | October 26, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Kennith was a rare four sport letterman, something that will never happen these days at Clear Creek since even the three sport guy, as noted above, has gone thataway.
Kennith would likely tell you he is not a Mount candidate. He could have told us this coming Saturday at our cousin's reunion but it unfortunately had to be postponed until next year.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 27, 2008 at 08:34 AM
Dan,
Do you want me to put Bubba's e-mail on here, because apparently we have a short between my and your email.
Posted by: | October 27, 2008 at 05:53 PM
Got it now but Bubba needs to get in here and add his wise commentary.
I have also been in contact with Scooter Lenox and I hope he will contribute too.
Lynn Davis is beating the drum for Scooter to have a spot on the Mount and he certainly did have a great Clear Creek career--in basketball and baseball.
He had a baseball offer from Baylor and he and I agree that baseball may have had a better future for him although he did well on the basketball court at Texas. It was a family lineage thing, he said. What a shock it would have been if he had turned his back on basketball.
He says his son Joey was good in both sports in high school but chose basketball too and is at San Angelo State now.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 28, 2008 at 09:18 AM
There have been far too many Wildcat athletes that I never saw for me to have an opinion on a "Mount Rushmore". However, I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Hank Bauerschlag. I agree with Ed Davis' mention of Coach Henry Bauerschlag, and the thought of the two Bauerschlags make me wonder why some kind of joint memorial to the two hasn't been done. Or has it?
Posted by: Pat Jensen | October 29, 2008 at 05:02 PM
Dan,
It is Angelo State University, in San Angelo, Texas. I made several long Continental Trailways bus rides from Huntsille and back in the good old days at Sam Houston. They are in the Lone Star Conference.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | October 29, 2008 at 11:07 PM
To choose just four for this honor is extremely difficult. I haven't finalized on mine and maybe won't.
I have shifted gears a bit and wonder which family has contributed the most?
Henry and Hank Bauerschlag have been mentioned and rightfully so.
I would add the Carlisle family. George Carlisle built the dynasty and sons Buddy and Billy were both players worthy of scholarships to Baylor. Although Billy defected to the wrong side of the Creek for his senior year, Buddy added to the family laurels with a good Wildcat coaching career.
If you take the coaching element out of it, the Lenox family probably stands alone. Bennie, Curly and Scooter each made first team all-state. That will likely never happen again.
Posted by: | October 30, 2008 at 09:32 AM
I'm glad to see things improved a little at Sam after I left. I remember a road trip to Brownwood and Alpine in the Winter of '56 to play Howard Payne and Sul Ross. We went in two cars. One of the players drove his girl friend's car and the coach drove the college Driver's Ed car, a '55 Chevy with no heater. (There was snow on the ground in Alpine.) As a Freshman, I rode the whole trip sandwiched in the middle of the back seat in the Driver's Ed car. Coach smoked Camel cigarettes the whole way, and yours truly never played a second in either game.
Posted by: Pat Jensen | October 30, 2008 at 09:35 AM
I note that my name did not appear as the author of the post of families to honor.
A note regarding Scooter Lenox. I knew that his brother Bennie tagged him with that nickname because he was a Yankee fan and Phil "Scooter" Rizzuto was a good shortstop for them.
I knew Scooter's real name was Joe but did not realize until today that he was named for Joe DiMaggio.
The Lenox family should have been big Cardinal fans. Then Scooter would be known today as Stan rather than Joe--and The Man rather than Scooter.
The Man Lenox. Now that has a certain ring, doesn't it?
Posted by: Dan Jensen | October 30, 2008 at 12:41 PM
I see where Terry mentioned that the Bearcats traveled by bus. At good old SWT we would load into two station wagons and head out. Coach vernon McDonald must have gotten his drivers license out of a wheaties box because it was really an experience riding with him. Two things were terrible about the LoneStar Conference. We played on Saturday and Monday nights. It was long trip home from anywhere on Monday night back to San marcos.
The worst trip was to Sul Ross in Alpine. If mapquest had existed then I believe the directions would have been drive to Del Rio and turn right. Continue on until you reach Nowhere tahn go another 20 miles.
It had to be even worse from Huntsville
Posted by: paul hackett | October 30, 2008 at 05:25 PM
We even had a rest room on the big CT. And the stewardess that served the meals and drinks was always very pretty. And we actually flew in a plane when we played out of state.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | October 30, 2008 at 06:28 PM
I see my name has been slung around here some lately!! Glad to know y'all haven't forgotten me! Happy Halloween.
Let's see....on the Mount Creek deal I agree that Coach Krueger deserves a spot. He won several of our district championships before he defected to Lake. He closed out the last of the 19 consecutive that we won. I'm also in pretty much agreement with Hank Bauerschlag as well. I think Hank's basketball career was one of the best ever at CC. And probably the Hank/Coach Henry B. is well deserved.
Over the years we have been blessed with several awesome "basketball families", such as the Lenoxes, Bauerschlags, Carlisles, and I'll even plug my own (extended), the Mathis family with Keith, Gerald, Terry, and myself, though granted not as prolific as the others but nonetheless with some all-district performances in among the bunch. There are perhaps others too that I'm missing, so if you can think of other families/players I'm forgetting, post them. I'd be interested to hear of others I forgot or maybe didn't know of. I lost track of Creek basketball when I moved out of state to Massachusetts for nearly 12 years during the mid-80's to late 90's. There were bound to be some good players during that span. But do any of the current blog posters know of players during that time period???
Here's an off the cuff question - what ever happened to Jeff Overhouse? He was a pretty good 6'6" post player his senior year, but never did know much about what happened to him after that. I thought he might have played at a SWC school, like A&M, but can't remember. Am I dreaming that, or does anyone remember what happened to Overhouse?
Posted by: Bubba Mathis | October 31, 2008 at 10:36 PM
Hello everybody and I'm back this year to give some updated information on former Creek grad and current Nevada Wolf Pack shooting guard Ray Kraemer. Last year as as sophomore transfer Ray only played 6.6 minutes a game, but he hit 48% of his 3pt shots (11/23), and played with great energy. He struggled on defense, but it was his first season in D1. Nevada's guards are it's strength so minutes will still be tough for Ray, but if his defense has improved (as is hinted in the article I've linked) he will hopefully get more playing time. For more on Ray I've put the URL for a good article in the "URL" field for my identity. Just click on my name and you should go to the article. I think. If that doesn't work, cut and paste the following URL into your address bar:
http://tiny.cc/ADmu5
I'll be back occasionally with updates on his progress as long as there is interest in Ray.
Posted by: Patrick H | November 01, 2008 at 12:08 AM
Jeff Overhouse did play at A&M, from 1970-1973. He holds the 3rd best all time rebound average with 9.5 rebounds per game, behind a name most people should remember that reads this, John Beasley 10.8 in 1963-1966, and Ronnie Peret at 9.8 in 1966-1969. So it sounds like he had at least a good rebounding career with the aggies.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | November 01, 2008 at 07:58 AM
I can tell no one reads my post's, because we did not really have stawardes's on our Continental Trailways buses at Sam Houston.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | November 01, 2008 at 09:55 PM
Terry,
I read it. Just figured it was Lister in a skirt.
Seriously, how long was the trip from huntsville to alpine?
Posted by: paul hackett | November 02, 2008 at 08:11 AM
We have too many clogging up this Mount Rushmore thread with off subject remarks. Scroll down and post on the appropriate thread or if it is something original, send it by e-mail to Ed Davis for posting.
I want updates on Ray Kraemer but that gets buried on this thread.
But be plumb sure that I appreciate any comment any old where but it would be better if the remarks would be on the same subject.
Some may maintain that it doesn't matter because the Mount Rushmore thread has about fizzled out. Hard to argue with that. Let us not let the whole blog fizzle.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | November 02, 2008 at 10:59 AM
Sorry for posting off topic. I'll e-mail Ed and see of I can get a thread of my own. I'd post more often if I do.
Posted by: Patrick H | November 02, 2008 at 12:04 PM
Unfortunately I don't see an e-mail link for Ed. If someone can have Ed e-mail me at
patrickh059 AT gmail.com
I can forward updates to him or he can start a thread and I'll post there.
Posted by: Patrick H | November 02, 2008 at 12:11 PM
Patrick, you can tack it on to last year's thread on Kraemer.
The link is: http://carlislescreek.typepad.com/carlisles_creek/2007/06/need-info-on-fo.html#comments
Posted by: Dan Jensen | November 02, 2008 at 01:27 PM
The trip from Huntsville, Texas to Alpine, Texas is 632 Miles, or around 9 hours and 30 minutes. My Soph. year we lost 99-98, Jr. year won 96-77, and Sr. year won 70-69 at Alpine. They were pretty tough on us after the long ride out there to them.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | November 03, 2008 at 10:15 PM
Here is a candidate for our Mount Clear Creek from my big brother Keith Mathis. He has suggested William Frost. I don't know he was before my time.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | November 15, 2008 at 08:24 PM
I note that on the ESPN Mount Rushmore that the leaders for Texas are Nolan Ryan, Earl Campbell, Lance Armstrong and Tom Landry.
I don't think Ryan should be one. After all Clear Creek beat him in both baseball and basketball.
What do y'all think?
Posted by: Dan Jensen | February 06, 2009 at 11:39 AM
7 no-hitters...END OF CONVERSATION...unless you want to talk about 383 strikeouts in a season or 5700 for a career..
Did I mention...7 no-hitters???
Posted by: Paul Hackett | February 06, 2009 at 10:27 PM
Paul, compare Ryan's overall record with that of Roger Clemens and get back to me.
What was Ryan's record against Clear Creek? I witnessed him getting a win in relief as a sophomore but don't know about the others. I know he lost at least twice to us.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | February 07, 2009 at 08:22 AM
Dan...i don't think high school wins and losses hold a lot of weight when considering the state's mount rushmore. if that was the criteria, Ken hall would be on the mountain instead of earl campbell.
Roger Clemens might be an acceptable replacement for Ryan but would he accept the award with a needle sticking ouyt of his butt. That was humor. Roger was a great pitcher.
I don't know whta his recor against Creek was. We beat him twicwe during my career.
I will stand, however, on my belief that Nolan is among texas" most successful athletes.
isn't it great that we have this forunm to discuss this stuff.
As for the ESPN poll for Mount Rushmores, it was done by people like us voting. i think the overall validity of the poll might be sued up that Tim tebow made the florida list. He is terrific...but Mount Rushmore with no professional career. For me...not yet
Posted by: Paul Hackett | February 08, 2009 at 02:31 PM
I decided to take Dan up on his request to compare the careers of clemens and ryan. Be reminded that I am not saying that either is more worthy than the other. Both would be on my list somewhere.
Also, I tried to find the team season records of the teams each played for but I could not seem to locate them. I would anecdotedly surmise that Roger played for better teams throughout his career as he played with Boston, Toronto, New York, Houston and New York.
I dare say the california angels, astros of the early 80's and the Texas rangers would not be confused with Roger's teams.
Anyway...here goes:
CATEGORY CLEMENS RYAN
SEASONS 23 27
WINS 354 (15.4) 324 (12.0)
LOSSES 184 (8) 292 (10.8)
COM. GMES 118 (5.1 222 (8.2)
ERA 3.12 3.19
INNINGS 4917 (214) 5386 (199)
3HITS 4185 (8.5) 3923 (7.3)
K’S 4672 (.95) 5714 (1.06)
In many ways it is remarkable how close these two are statistically if you look at the seasonal averages and the per inning stat for strikeouts.
Both great...Roger has those 354 wins and 20 strikeout games and Ryan has that obsene number of 7 no hitters, 12 one hitters and a host of 2 hitters.
I say...
PICK YOUR POISON...BOTH ARE LETHAL
Posted by: paul hackett | February 08, 2009 at 03:06 PM
Does anyone remember us losing to Nolan Ryan in high school other than the sophomore relief appearance that I have already mentioned?
Posted by: Dan Jensen | February 08, 2009 at 08:41 PM
Actually, I am not sure he got a win in relief in that game. Alvin may have had the lead and he just protected it. Don't know if "save" was a common word then.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | February 09, 2009 at 01:08 PM
Hey dan
This is right out of my Yearbooks
My soph...Ryan Junior year
CC 7 Alvin 6
CC2 Alvin 1
My Junior Ryan Senior
CC 2 Alvin 0
Alvin 5 CC 2
I don't have any detail on any of the games other than the 2-0 win my junior year
Posted by: paul hackett | February 10, 2009 at 10:05 AM
I feel quite certain that Ryan would have been the pitcher in their 5-2 win over us.
Posted by: paul hackett | February 10, 2009 at 10:17 AM
I think Nolan pitched almost every game the yellow jackets played in. He must of had a bionic arm.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | February 15, 2009 at 07:34 PM
Terry,
I think you are right. I am pretty certain that he pitched every Tuesday and every Friday. if i am not mistaken, I believe coach watson pithed hi on back to back days or on 1 days rest in the state tournament.
Interestingly enough, I recal a lot of weeks during District play pitching on Tuesday then again on Friday. It did not seem like that big of a deal. Maybe if I had thrown hard enough to break an egg my arm would have needed more recuperative time.
I wonder if you recall if scooter pitched twice during any weeks your senior year.
Posted by: paul hackett | February 16, 2009 at 03:27 PM
Here is my starting five for CCHS. You have to start with a coach and I don't think there is any question Coach Carlisle would be that coach. To top my list I'd start with Bennie Lenox and Hank Bauerslag,two of the most talented and gifted Texas HS basketball players to ever play the game.
Then I would add Scooter Lenox, Paul Trcka and either Bill Doty or Curley Lenox.
Anyone want to play five-on five?
Mark Foster
Posted by: Mark Foster | March 24, 2010 at 07:44 PM
After sleeping on my picks last night and remembering those golden years Curley is a starter and Bill Doty would be my 6th man.
Posted by: Mark Foster | March 25, 2010 at 09:28 AM
You have too many Lenoxes on your team. They were all highly over rated.
Bill Doty was probably the second best player that George Carlisle coached. He deserves to be on the first five.
Very interesting post Mark. I hope others will add to it.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | March 25, 2010 at 09:35 AM
Mark, who would get the rebounds for your team? With Bill Doty on my team, he would out rebound your entire five. If I were to put Jeff Overhouse in there with Doty, your guys would not get a single one.
And, if you remember an oldtimer like Bennie Lenox, you ought to include Paul Timmins, who was just a year younger. He was probably the third best player George Carlisle ever coached.
What are your reasons for including Bennie Lenox on your team? I just don't get it.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | March 25, 2010 at 11:56 AM
Dan, you are a funny guy. As far as rebounds go everyone knows my team wouldn't miss any shots so I wouldn't need Doty or Overhouse.
I am curious, you didn't list your top 5.
Posted by: Mark Foster | March 25, 2010 at 07:49 PM
Judge Foster, Buddy Carlisle has given me some background on you. You are a seventies guy and my focus would be on the fifties and sixties.
I am part of an e-mail group of former Clear Creek athletes and most agree that it is difficult to judge players of different eras. Buddy has suggested all-decade teams would be better and he is right.
I don't think my top three would be any secret but really haven't given any thought to a top five or ten. I will do that. One of these days. Maybe.
In the meantime, I would like to hear from others. Terry Mathis gave our group his five and I pounded him for it so you don't need to feel singular.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | March 29, 2010 at 10:40 PM
Dan, it scares me that Buddy is giving background info. I do agree with him on the all decade teams, and by the way this is a great site even if you do "pound" on the contributors. I gave the site to Chuck Kilgore last night. He doesn't do computers but between myself and some others we'll help him out.
Posted by: Mark Foster | April 02, 2010 at 08:42 AM
Not saying this is the best 5 of the 60's ...but I would coach these guys against anyone else's 5...
Point Guard...Buddy Carlisle
2 Guard ... Terry Mathis
3/wing ... Scooter lenox
4&5..High/low post..Bill Mcguire and Richard Huhn
Posted by: Paul Hackett | April 07, 2010 at 01:07 PM
Was "point guard" even a designation in the sixties?
And speaking of the sixties, Bennie Lenox graduated in 1960 and Paul Timmins in 1961 and Bill Doty in 1962. Paul, you better revise your list in a plumb hurry.
Posted by: Dan Jensen | April 08, 2010 at 09:49 AM
Paul I appreciate your vote, but you know you would be the shoting forward on the above 5. You and Scooter could shot the lights out. Now that would be a tough team. Look out DUKE.
Posted by: Terry Mathis | April 10, 2010 at 06:14 PM